Being a Gentleman in a Digital World  

VenusRedux2 44F
336 posts
3/30/2017 6:59 am
Being a Gentleman in a Digital World

Women aren’t looking for Prince Charming, we’re not some helpless damsel in distress you have to rescue

We certainly don’t want Don Quixote, as misguided notions of chivalry is only going to make you look silly

Here’s how to properly display chivalry in the digital age

Old-style chivalry dictates that ALL women are beautiful and wonderful beings who should be exalted to some lofty pedestal just by virtue of being … I dunno … alive? …

The idea that women are going to magically fall in love with some stranger who slayed a dragon in our behalf is just silly. Also, dragons are mythical, as are the most of the things you men seem to think we women need protection from.

Chivalry isn’t simply odd etiquette standards that society has deemed "things gentlemen ought to do for ladies." In its proper historical context, it served a purpose. Chivalry was intended to do things that needed to get done. It was practical.

As such, how a gentleman conducts himself should change and conform to the circumstances of the day. That is my issue with chivalry and why I feel modern men need to dispense of many of the chivalrous standards that they were brought up with. They are no longer applicable. Here’s an example of what I mean...

When Victorian ladies wore hoop skirts and had to get that thing up and into a carriage, yeah, it mattered to have a man assist.

Today, I don’t like men helping me into or out of a car. For me, it has nothing to do with new-age feminism. I’m in a skirt most of the time. Getting into and out of a car is one of the most immodest actions that can be taken in a skirt. If you are so hell-bent on being chivalrous, give me my modesty, not your hand.

Being a gentleman has NEVER been about being a doormat for women. However, as the need for chivalry diminishes, nobly holding onto such antiquated notions turns a man into just that – a doormat.

I’m not suggesting scrapping the whole idea, I’m merely suggesting we rethink how it should be expressed on a site such as this.

Here’s a few thoughts that I had that are FAR more important to me than opening doors for me or paying for meals:

Text and chat without it always being a booty call

For women, this needs no explanation.

For men, it’s going to take 82 chapters with diagrams, footnotes, and cross-references.

When you text "Hey" at 12:30 AM, that’s a booty call no matter what you want to later claim.

Text me at lunchtime sometime while at work (that can never be mistaken for a booty call). If you absolutely MUST text late, make it obvious it’s not a booty call by asking "How’d you manage in all this crazy snow?" or "How’s that awful employee treating you this week?"

Limit the foul language, the street slang, and the texting abbreviations

When you’re just getting to know someone, it is expected that you’re putting your best foot forward. If this is your best, that doesn’t bode well. Too much of this is a signal of low social standing.

Don’t try to be hip, trendy, or edgy. It ends up making you look like an adolescent with his first smart phone. If you want the conversation to be on what the film industry describes as "Adult Content," then you'll have to act like an adult.

Be happy and upbeat

While this should be true all the time, it is particularly important during face to face meetings, and absolutely paramount on a first meet.

Not just to be with me, but with everyone we come in contact with in the course of the evening. Even if we get bad service at the bar, even if the waitress spills the drinks, even if I’m bitching and moaning about the depressing stuff in my life. You’re supposed to be the FUN part of my day.

Offering her a shoulder to cry on IS noble and gentlemanly. It isn’t necessarily wrong in general, it is just wrong for you. This isn’t your role. That role is handled by her friends. Friendship isn’t what you’re offering her. Offering her friendship leads to … drum roll please … the Friend-Zone.

Instead, be a gentleman by instead redirecting conversation back to positive topics.

Treat other women with respect

It goes without saying that you should do that for me, that’s expected. Where you really shine is when you do it for others. When you offer the older lady a seat without breaking stride in your conversation with me, all the while continuing as if it’s the most normal thing in the world, we notice stuff like that.

Applying it to the online/texting world, don’t talk about the other women in your life in a negative light – even your ex who is batshit crazy.

Be supportive without White Knighting

Don’t be like that guy in the bar … you know, the one that’s a little too ready and eager to step in and throw a punch for a lady. She was never that helpless in the first place, and women don’t want a savior.

I see a ton of this on the blogs. Women complain, and men can’t help but to come to their rescue. Must make them feel good to rescue the damsel in distress.

Filling her head about how right she is, and how wrong everyone else is acting towards her is displaying misplaced chivalry. Women know how to handle themselves here … especially towards the sleazy guys who come onto them. They learned that the first day they got here. They don’t need you coming to their defense.

By all means, offer an encouraging word. That’s appropriate in that situation. That’s all she’s looking for. That’s your role. She wants to vent, let her vent. You just don’t need to take up the crusade on her behalf, that’s a bit too much.

Be interesting, conversational, intelligent, and fun

I saved this one to conclude everything into one neat bow. This really isn’t a "gentlemanly" issue so much as it puts it all into its proper perspective.

Being a gentleman is not some magical etiquette standard that can supplant who you are as a person.

None of this is enough to offset your bad qualities. If you’re low class … if you’re dumb as a box of rocks … if you’re boring beyond words … no amount of chivalry scores you enough points to win a woman over.

In other words, while this may be a worthwhile discussion, it takes a second place … a distant second … to being a fun and lively person to be around. If you’re a halfway decent guy, you’ll be doing all this stuff naturally, so it won’t matter. But if you’re not a decent guy at heart, you’ll only be able to fake it for so long.

Next up, revisiting the discussion as to why men should NOT pick up the check, regardless of how chivalrous you may think it is.

BiggLala 47F  
27372 posts
3/30/2017 3:44 pm

" isn't chivalry if you expect to get laid."
-Ding, ding, ding! I'd add to this that it isn't chivalry if you expect it to get you the girl or some other reward. All to often these days I see the 'nice guys' ranting that 'hey, I'm a nice guy because I open doors, take her to dinner and treat her nice. Why am I not finding what I want?' THIS..."Treat other women with respect" part of the reason. I was taught that manners and showing courtesy to PEOPLE is how we should behave...not just toward the attractive hottie we want to make a play for and impress. I've also seen many men only show courteous behavior to women when they want to hit on her, while ignoring other people who might genuinely need assistance.

I don't know when the tide turned from this (and I've seen it in all ages, so it's not just the youngins), but I find it so disheartening.

As for your point of view, it's certainly interesting. Being the female who appreciates chivalrous behavior, I've not thought about it quite like this before. You've given me something to think about. That's a good thing!

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VenusRedux2 replies on 3/31/2017 4:52 am:
I've noticed that as well. Quite a lot of stuff I can do without, but giving up a seat for women is a big one for me. I've seen professional men on the subway dumbly sit there and make pregnant women stand. That didn't have quite as much application to proper behavior on a social networking site, so I only touched on it briefly in the post itself.

I was somewhat limited in how it translates to just how we speak.

twosharp2 75M
553 posts
3/30/2017 11:49 am

Quoting VenusRedux2:
Getting into and out of a car is one of the most immodest actions that can be taken in a skirt.

What's the problem? You get to be a little naughty and he may get a brief flash.

VenusRedux2 replies on 3/30/2017 12:08 pm:
I understand that you are making this comment in jest, however, it is nevertheless not appreciated. Sexual excitement from flashing in public is deviant and illegal, thus not suitable even for jokes.

maybejustrex4 52M  

3/30/2017 10:45 am

A good post but I think you have missed two important points. First, it isn't chivalry if you expect it to get you laid. You treat other people right because it is the right way to treat other people. In this way you will be neither a doormat nor a pedagogue demanding certain behavior.

Second, and on the topic of pedagogy, can you imagine tolerating a man writing a 6 topic summary of how women should behave? Such a man can and should be cast from civilized society. I acknowledge the vast need my gender has for remedial education but aren't you just throwing so many more pearls before the swine?

VenusRedux2 replies on 3/30/2017 11:04 am:
Honestly, a lot of women here could use some lessons on how to behave. Lot of bad behavior on the blogs, especially in disparaging men simply for the attention. I have to watch that I don't cross the line with that. That's why I try to instead focus on "here's a better and more successful way" rather than "here's an exhaustive list of why you're a fucktard."

pocogato12 67F  
30676 posts
3/30/2017 10:21 am

Ah Ha the Hotel Chapter is so fitting. The April Symposium Topic is Hotel- you peeked!!!

(Virtual Symposium Group) use Virtual Symposium Group

VenusRedux2 replies on 3/30/2017 11:49 am:
A boisterous, loud voice, loud laughter, and bold deportment, at a hotel, are sure signs of vulgar breeding.

This stuff is awesome!

Tmptrzz 57F  
68401 posts
3/30/2017 8:27 am

Great blog hun and Chivalry needs to be alive and well here on the site as well. In saying that I mean their chat MANNERS!!!

Just your average every day run of the mill nana here!!!

VenusRedux2 replies on 3/30/2017 8:43 am:

There's an over-focus on stuff like opening doors - which I can do without ... and a total and complete lack of thought given to how to display it in an online/texting conversation - which is critical

greekphilosopher 56M
4087 posts
3/30/2017 8:17 am

Thanx for sharing. Interesting and to the point post. I would not help anyone in a car, just open the door maybe. There are no dragons, but what about a little spider? Or a mouse? We would kill those too for our damsel you know?

VenusRedux2 replies on 3/30/2017 8:40 am:
The bar is so low I'll accept someone who can hold an acceptable level of conversation.

The car thing is kind of mine. While a lot of women I've talked to feel similarly, it is hardly universal. Not all women feel that way about it.

Definitely kill spiders.

tymeflyz2fast 69M

3/30/2017 8:08 am

You have some valid points and I think, for the most part, men don't really see women as 'helpless' and god knows I'm not real anxious to get into a bar fight over someone I don't even know. Not only women, but all people, should be treated with respect until they lose that right through their own actions.

I'd like to just touch on the HAPPY AND UPBEAT portion. That part makes it seem that we (men) are really more the entertainment for the evening. Even the most upbeat people cannot be 'on stage' every minute of every day yet it seems we are to provide the FUN. I don't see where it is the man's responsibility (solely) to provide the fun. How about a stimulating conversation between two people where both are involved in the conversation? Just a thought.

Good post.

VenusRedux2 replies on 3/30/2017 8:33 am:
How about a stimulating conversation between two people where both are involved in the conversation?

I dunno, I would describe that as fun.

I would liken it as to going out to a movie. I don't necessarily have to see a funny comedy to describe the evening as "fun." As long as everyone is enjoying themselves, that's the key issue.

As far as being "On." I do kind of expect that, even if it is a burden for guys. Allowances for not being "on" all the time are only given after a relationship has been established. What you say is a worthy discussion, just not at the beginning of a new relationship, where best-foot-forward at all times is expected.

I understand the desire not to be reduced to "mere entertainment" as if they're some circus clown. However, to put it bluntly, that's all that's being offered on the first few dates ... an entertaining night. What's the alternative? "I'm offering you a boring night where we both interview each other and discuss candidacy for relationship openings" ... that doesn't exactly sound appealing.

affa1r4me 65M
91 posts
3/30/2017 7:42 am

I enjoy reading your posts, they are always so informative and on point. Thanks for taking the time to share.

If you wish to contact me, I've setup a private Postbox affa1r4me in my Blog.

VenusRedux2 replies on 3/30/2017 7:52 am:
HA! "To the point" ... I'm usually described as being overly verbose. You don't think so?

pocogato12 67F  
30676 posts
3/30/2017 7:35 am

Good Morning!!! I love this post and can't wait to see more of "Emily".
I did some on- line research and found an old book by Florence Hartley that's part of the Project Gutenberg EBook on Etiquette for Ladies ( 26 chapters and entered in congress in 1860). The first chapter is on Politeness ( Imagine that being polite on the net???). Might make for some interesting reading one day. I did not find any publications relating to etiquette for men-- hmmm

(Virtual Symposium Group) use Virtual Symposium Group

VenusRedux2 replies on 3/30/2017 8:12 am:
Oh no! You love it TOO much. I have a follow up post specifically about picking up the check ... but nothing beyond that. Now I gotta come up with more stuff. Maybe I should read that book.

There's a chapter on How to Behave at a Hotel ... my first thoughts on that are positively inappropriate....

In my best British accent (admittedly bad):

"A lady must not be too loud. While the sounds of intimacy may be exciting when viewed on the television, in person it is quite unseemly."

VenusRedux2 44F
518 posts
3/30/2017 7:06 am

Back to my regularly scheduled programming

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